Cultivated Marketer, episode 37.
You can either change yourself or have the world changed for you.
In this episode of Cultivated marketer, Matt, Julie and I connect to do a bit of
a recap episode and have a discussion of the last four guests that we've had on
since Julie Massa has joined the show.
In it, we recap the Lynn Zimmerman interview around change management
and change communications crisis with Amy Whitfield.
We have Fred Cook where we talk communication trends, and then
the Valerie Marrow episode.
Where we discuss social media, but there is a common thread through
this around taking accountability and thinking about strategic planning and
how you can apply change to yourself in viewing the world around you.
It's probably the best way to put it.
And so if that topic interests you, you'll definitely want to hang around and check
out this recap episode with me, Matt and Julie, discussing our last four guests.
We also maybe preview some amazing highlights and guests
that are forthcoming as well.
So enjoy.
Welcome to Cultivated Marketer, where we talk marketing professional development,
so your Garden of Opportunity grows.
This is Brent Bowen.
I'm Matt Tidwell.
And I'm Julie
Maan.
All right.
The gang's here.
We're going to do this because we've had so many great conversations and
now that we've also brought Julia aboard, we thought we would, there have
been so many fabulous insights we've had in each of these conversations.
We felt like maybe every three to four.
Episodes the three of us would get together.
I think I had phrased it this way when we, we got together to
have a conversation about this.
The three of us aren't idiots, so I think we could actually pretty
respected and seasoned in our own regards with respect to, to what we do.
And so it might be okay for us to share a perspective or two and even
draw upon the insights and that we've had for maybe each of these guests.
So we wanted to take the opportunity to maybe recap and reflect on some
of the different conversations in, in a more meaningful way.
And we might do this, like I said, every three to four conversations we've hit.
Now that we've had Julie join us, we've had four guests on, and even though we
haven't all been present for all them, I know we've participated, at least in
active least listening to each of those.
So if folks don't recall or remember, we've had Lynn Zimmerman on.
Amy Whitfield, Fred Cook, and Valerie Morrow join us over the last couple
months since we've, we've done the show.
And so with that, I think we're might just start with, with thinking about Lynn
and we can go through this organically and I'll make sure I keep scoring.
We've touch on and we're have a conversation about each of the guests,
but we can just start with, with Lynn.
I'll leave that up, Matt.
Yeah.
Julie, any, any thoughts on, on that conversation?
And I just spoke with Lynn, so we get together monthly for, for Lynn and I to
talk, so I I don't So you're excused?
I'm excused.
Well, I don't know if I'm excused, but I could draw upon other conversations
we've had, so, but I'll leave it
up to you too.
You're, you're, you're the lin expert I think.
I think you've known her the longest, but, uh, getting back to how you opened,
I'm so glad we're doing this, Brent.
'cause I know, you know, when we think back to version 1.0 of cultivated
marketing is, or, or, or, uh, b bj as we I say before, Julie, we, you know,
you and I would do this quite a bit.
You say, oh gee, those for such great conversations, at some point we need
to get on and just kind of recap those and, and we've never done that, so I'm
so glad we're, we're at that point.
I, I agree.
This is a great exercise for the three of us to do.
Yeah, Lynn, again, I took so much from, from Lynn, you know, not only you.
I think we ostensibly, we came on thinking, well, we're gonna talk to her
about internal communications 'cause and, and also change communications
actually really more change on the change communication side.
But, you know, as both of you know, very well, she's just a, a, an expert on, you
know, how to build your own brand and, and you know, how to be your, you know,
be a consultant and, and obviously offer.
Offer services from a consulting perspective.
And so we ended up talking a lot about, which was interesting to me 'cause
I don't, I don't really do that as much, nearly as much as you all do.
And so, but there's definitely an art in the science to, to kind of hanging out
your shingle and building your brand.
And she's just done that really, really well.
And so I was really glad we were able to cover that part with her.
Yeah, for me, since, as you guys know, I work with nonprofit communicators,
so for me, listening to Lynn talk about change management was highly
applicable because not, as I've said, nonprofits tend to be highly messy.
I don't know why I love them so much, but I do because nonprofits
are nine times out of 10.
9.9 times out of 10.
Okay.
I'll give it that.
They're doing something that's really good and really beneficial for, for whatever
community they're trying to serve, but they're just often super messy and.
Ideas and changes can happen frequently, not always well thought out.
So when Lynn was talking about how to communicate change to an organization,
pretty much everything she said, I thought this applies to nonprofits.
This applies to nonprofits.
This applies to nonprofits because the reality is, is if you can't communicate
change well in your organization, it's gonna hurt your mission.
Whether you're a nonprofit or a business trying to accomplish something.
And we, we don't see that change subsiding, whether it's messy nonprofits
or it's the advent and continued introduction of new technologies too.
I know that's something that Lynn, and when we have the opportunity to share
the show notes, I know Lynn is gonna be front and center in some different
conversations, different webinars and the like that I think our listeners
and viewers should be aware of.
And a lot of that's even gonna be around incorporating technology within
organizations and the, the change that's required to adopt and then
make u best use of that technology.
We're seeing a lot of that in the, in the artificial intelligence space and know,
and that, that may segue us into some other conversations that we're gonna have,
you know, have as, as we think about the conversation we had with Fred and then
even some of our future conversations.
But, you know, some of that's culture.
Change.
I know Julie, having worked with a lot of nonprofits, some of that's mature, like
just maturity, the organization change and then you're not also, you're also seeing
a lot of Lynn's work being reflected in, in a lot of technology change.
'cause I know she's gonna be at a, on a, a webinar here with, with comms futurist,
so Na Natalie, who's a cohort of Julie and mine on, on comms consultants there.
So I know Lynn's gonna be front and center in some of that.
You'll continue to see her at different IABC conferences and
the like because of that work.
Yeah.
The other note that I had that I'm so glad we covered this with Lynn, is we
tend to, we talked about just kind of terminology and differences, so, you
know, there's internal communications, there's change communications and,
and sometimes those can be kind of conflated and she really did a nice
job of kind of parsing that out, right?
That change communications really is something where I think she
talked about it in terms of.
It has a beginning and an end.
It's an initiative, whereas internal comms is certainly, can, can encompass
change, but it's more of the kind of the long game, if you will.
And, and I think that's super important.
I know particularly for young professionals who, you know,
may tend to kind of see them as essentially the same thing.
They're, they're really not.
And so I was super glad that she, she was able to cover that.
Yeah.
And the also the, yeah, the internal communications change communications
and even change management.
The discipline of change management and where the, the inner points of
intersection are there and how they're different too, and why you need
that was probably one of my favorite soundbites of that conversation
from Lynn was the notion of.
Where internal communications and the communications team has a purview of
everything that could be happening within an organization where a
change management practitioner will have extreme depth in that change.
And so they really are very complimentary resources and roles and team
members to, to execute a, a change.
And you need both to be, be successful in that change.
I will fess up here and say that prior to having Lynn on, I definitely thought
of her as internal communications, and then as she was talking, I went, oh
yeah, change communications is, that wasn't even a term I knew prior to Lynn.
And so what you just described, Brent was really helpful for me because
the reality is, is those are two different, but complimentary and
necessary communications fields.
So yeah, I think about.
Someone young in their career or even in school trying to
figure out what they want to do.
I feel like someone who likes more project-based comms work might appreciate
change communications because it's the kind of work you can get in.
You do it for a certain amount of time, and then you get out.
If you're someone who likes a lot more stability and con consistent types of
work, they might prefer internal comms.
Yeah, that's a great point.
Hey Brad, I got a question for you 'cause I know this came up in the episode
and I made a note to ask you on, but there, there're more and more folks
that are in this space are, are getting certifications and things like that.
Mm-hmm.
And I know there's a, there's a, I believe a company that does a
lot of the certifications called Prosci, I think is the name of it.
Mm-hmm.
Can you explain that in, in a little more depth in case in case
people, because I know that came up with you and Len a couple times.
Well, I know there are some, I'm not gonna be, I'm not gonna profess to
be the expert on all sorts of change management, so I am a Prosci certified.
Okay.
So it's, it's three days worth of, of of training.
And the best way.
I can articulate.
So pro size, one of several change management disciplines, right?
And if, if I go back to 20 years ago in my career, I would work with
different consulting firms where they would talk about the change
curve and getting people from.
Awareness all the way to commitment.
So Prosci really is a, there's a, an acronym called acar.
So it's awareness, desire, knowledge, ability, and reinforcement.
And most people, they say change is really dedicated.
It really is about the individual and every individual has to move through
those points in the acronym to.
Really deliver the change for an organization.
And they think about it almost like I used to watch my kids play soccer.
They would all chase the ball.
Like you have to have all of the people on the field going through all of those
points to, to chase the ball and deliver on that, to deliver on that change.
But when you step back and think about the Prosci model, this is what
they've really done with Prosci is created a structure and a framework.
Around three core disciplines.
One of them is communications.
Got it.
Okay.
So they think they, one is training and then the other one, and this is where
I think technology deployments, having worked on a number of corporate and
then also helped a number of companies with their technology selection.
So, you know, if I go back to my time at Sprint and working at Sprint,
Nextel with the MER, when they merged.
I was helping with them basically lead change through the
organization on new technology.
And the, as part of that, we had governance structures in place that,
that included executive leadership, creating governing bodies and
making good governed decisions.
And so to me, Prosci is really three legs of ESOLs comms.
Training and governance, and you're seeing these really disciplined
organizations are getting more mature.
It's things we all worked on decades ago, but you have companies like Prosci really
putting a solid framework around it.
So people are really interested in that kind of work.
As Julie referenced.
The, the real meaty project, like you really wanna affect big, meaty project
type change throughout an organization.
Things like pros, you see a lot of communications practitioners move
into change management and it, it gets really detailed into the execution.
But pro size.
One example of that that I happen to be, I got certified in it a couple years ago.
I was working with a firm.
Yep.
Thanks.
Yeah, yeah.
Thanks for clarification.
Yeah, and speaking of change, I mi I might move us on to one of our next folks
is, and not gonna go linear per se, but I guess Fred maybe talk about Fred and
then we can talk about Amy after Fred.
'cause I think that would be, I've gotta good segue in mind there as
we, we had Amy on, but we think about change, that was all of that
conversation we had with Fred was really around the things that are gonna be.
Front and center for specifically PR practitioners, but really I would say
communications and marketing professionals all over about the things we need to be
thinking about from a change standpoint.
Yeah, I think to tag onto that, Brent, I, I think that, yeah, I'm
so glad that we walked down the change road with Fred because you.
You know, in his current role where he's leading University of Southern
California's Annenberg Center for Public Relations, I mean, that's
a, it's just about as prestigious a name as you can find in our, in our
business in terms of future forecasting.
Right.
They come out with their annual comms report every year and they look at
movers and, and drivers and, you know, broadly, but certainly in communications.
And so, yeah, I'm, I'm really glad that we got, we were on long enough with him that
we could get a, a chance to talk about some of those, some of those factors.
'cause Yeah, that's, that's really where they.
Center most of their activities.
Yeah, I was a little jealous that I had to miss this interview.
So when I went, especially once I went to listen to it, so I got to listen to it.
Like all of our listeners listening to this one, that too
many listens in one sentence.
I, I love that interview.
And what I, there's two things that I was really fascinated by and I can't remember
the exact words for the second one, so you guys are gonna have to help me out.
But the first thing that I loved was when he gave that example of,
I think it was, was it Nintendo?
He was pitching to the president of Nintendo for this thing, and
the, the president of Nintendo was like, no, we're not doing that.
And Fred basically told him.
If you're an idiot, you should do this.
I mean, that's not the word that, that's me paraphrasing Ed for Frank,
that was the message and the fact that the, like the guy did it.
So for me, especially as a, a female in this industry, I thought, wow, I
don't know that I would've had the guts to say, Hey, I think you should do it.
So I loved just hearing his confidence to.
You should do this, then I think you're crazy if you don't.
And I think that comes from, as he shared more of his story and how he got
there and the assignment, or I don't know if it's assignment he asked his
students to do and what's the name of it, Matt, where he asked students to
have like do something uncomfortable.
Yeah.
He calls it the ask the captain.
And because it's, you know, it relates to that story he told what
was on the episode about, you know.
Going back and asking the tanker ship captain if he could, and then
he ends up traveling in Asia for like two years as a result of that.
Well,
he, he would've not, he would not have been able to make that kind of an ask
of the president of Nintendo without having all of that experience behind him.
So that was just a good reminder.
I think for me, within my career, there's things I have to do.
Should do.
Don't wanna do, but I know I really should.
That feel really uncomfortable.
But you have to be able to do those things.
And I even looking back within my career, especially when I was
leading comms in-house, I didn't go from marketing manager to CCO in
eight years because I was willing to just sit and say, okay, yes sir.
Sure.
Yes ma'am.
You know, like I had to learn how to push.
Yeah.
And do what was uncomfortable in a respectful.
Bridge building way.
And so I love that example that he provided.
I thought that was really good.
And yes, I'm still jealous.
Not offended, but jealous.
I had to miss that one.
It was, it was my own choice.
It did not work for my schedule.
So it's not like they cut me out.
No, uh, that's a great perspective.
And I think the way he relates it now is obviously he's a college professor.
As, as you know, Julie, you and I are, and Brent, you've done teaching as well.
His point is, is that so many of these students are just, for whatever
reason, they're just, they're very reticent to kind of go out
and get outta their comfort zone.
And point being, you're not gonna rise to any substantial level in terms of
career if you're not willing to do that.
And so I think that that's really, to me, the beauty of that.
And yeah, he creates an entire class exercise out of it that I'm now
gonna shamelessly steal for my own leadership class, because I just
think it's, it's a great way to kind of illustrate that to folks.
Yeah, that the whole notion of the comfort zone, and we were talking about this just
for a moment before we hit record, is I, that has resonated so much with me.
The notion of just not giving into fear, navigating around fear, throwing
yourself into something you're afraid of, and it was something I, I think I
mentioned, I shared with you all that Anita Newton, who's the Chief Innovation
Officer at Community America in town, had started a LinkedIn conversation around.
One where she was working with students and she said, well, you can either get
comfortable on the couch when you go home at night, or you can continue to
commit to your craft and do something that you're not, you're not necessarily,
that's unknown to you, basically.
And she was talking about her adoption of ai and so she goes home
every night and just plays with.
AI for a little bit, for about an hour to just continue to get comfortable with it.
And I, I ended up expressing to her, I said, this sounds so much like the story
Fred had talked about when he took the students to the music agency and the
agency had admitted, said these musicians.
So I think about all these super talented musicians, right?
And the difference between success and failure based on working with
this agency is how persistent and how annoying are you.
And be and reminding them that you're there because the margin and talent
every, there's so many people in the world that are talented, are
you willing to do what it's gonna take to be found to be discovered.
This might be a good time to show you my mug that says Comms professionally
annoying for the greater good.
So you do get to be a little bit annoying to be really good at your, at your craft
merch site, please.
For the show notes on, yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah.
You know, the, the other reason that I ask the captain resonates with that.
Julie, I know you talk a lot about the difference between being tactical and
being strategic, and I'm sure you work with your students on that, as do i.
I think this aspect of, if you don't learn how to, as a young professional, if you
don't learn how to get outta your comfort zone, you're, you, frankly, that making
that leap from tactician to strategist is gonna be more difficult because, you know.
Juliana, you and I have a, a good personal connection Professor Angie
Hendershot at at University of Kansas, who always tells students,
you gotta have a perspective, right?
You gotta have a strategic perspective to be able to offer
to your client, et cetera.
When you get out there in the quote, real world, and, and if you're not
able to ask the captain, if you're not able to, to even just get that initial
yes, that gets you out of your comfort zone, then you're not gonna be able
to, to be ultimate, or it's gonna be much harder, let's put it that way,
to turn into a strategist ultimately.
Angie is also the first person I ever heard say, don't let
perfection be the enemy of good.
Yeah.
Or it was either that one or she said, done is better than perfect.
And you know, to hear your professor, it's say that to you when you're working on
this huge semester long research project to go, wait, done is better than perfect.
Are you sure?
But that, I know.
That's what I see.
My own kids, my own teenagers.
Sometimes there's this hesitancy to just, just do the thing.
It doesn't have to be perfect.
Just do it.
Just take a step forward, do the next thing.
I once had a CEO who used to say, not everything has to be an A paper.
That's right.
And just because he had a business to run.
Right.
And so, yes, he wanted people to be strategic, but he would,
he had the plaque on his wall.
Not everything has to be an A paper, which if you're not
able to get outta your comfort zone for the things that you're.
Passionate about, then how are you going to do what Amy Whitfield does?
Hmm.
Oh gosh.
That's a, that's some segue.
Nice segue to our next guest.
I could not do what Amy does, which is why she's new I Cole, when I
have a correct comp situation.
I used to call when I was doing comps and house.
Now she's who I recommend to everyone.
Which on some level, you know, she loves nonprofit.
She loves the faith-based organization.
That's why she does what she does.
But at the same time, if you're not willing to th the her, the ability
for someone like that to help people prepare to deal with the worst.
That could happen is to me just such a remarkable gift.
Yes, yes.
Yeah.
I'm so glad we utter.
I mean, you know, I, I do a lot of work in crisis communications.
Obviously I teach and I do some consulting in it as well.
But what was fascinating to me is even in the best of situations when
you're managing crisis comms for an organization, it's stressful.
But when you talk about the kinds of, of organizations that she often
represents, there's, and Juliana, you know this segment very well.
The stakes can be even higher because emotions are high.
People have a strong sense of connectivity because these are religious organizations
in many cases, and I was just fascinated that that's her segment and, and it
just struck me that that's a high stakes environment to be operating in.
Yes.
I once heard her say, I don't remember who was on this podcast with us, or I, I bring
her in to meet with my nonprofit clients because I think if you're gonna, if you're
gonna do communications well, you need to know who to call when things go poorly.
And she, she gives this example of how.
Her head loves crisis communications because it's, it's such a puzzle and
there's so much to figure out, but her heart does not, and that it's
really hard for her heart, which is why I think you have to do that work
a little bit with ebbs and flows.
I don't know that it's something you can do forever.
I don't know that it's something you can do year round.
She does.
She's also in a different life phase, I think with grown kids where it makes it
a little bit more doable, but I could not do crisis comms as a, as a career.
No.
Thank you.
It's a hard no for me.
Yeah.
You know, I, I will say though, that crisis, uh, it's been, it's
been easier for me to teach it because I lived it during my 25
years working in the profession.
I had product recalls and employee layoffs and plant closures,
and, you know, you name it.
Product tampering.
If, if it happened, I, I did it.
But the, and yeah, those were very stressful.
Usually two or three week kind of time periods.
But it's so funny because you're, you're operating at such a
high level there and you're so acutely aware of what's going on.
Every like single day that you were in, that is burned into your memory.
So like, I don't even need notes.
When I talked to my class about the, the plant explosion that we had,
that unfortunately killed a couple of of workers because I remember
that day or those two days actually just like it was yesterday because
I know exactly what I was doing.
And, and students will be like, gee, how do you remember that?
You know, that shrubs 'cause any of us who are working in a crisis,
those memories stick with you.
And so I was glad we had Amy on 'cause she, she was able to, to talk about
the entire soup, the nuts process of, of crisis communications, which
is definitely both art and science.
I remember where I was with my first major crisis where I was the comms lead
and I remember sitting on the steps.
I remember having to type out, mm-hmm.
Starting on my phone because it was so urgent.
I had to start typing out the possible public statement we
had to release and man way.
For
some people, that's a rush, right?
I mean, I know people in crisis.
I dunno, Brett, if you know any long-term crisis communications
folks, but they're always that you, you sort of have to compartmentalize.
I mean, obviously you're there to do a job, but, but it's, it
definitely gets your adrenaline going.
Maybe that's a better way to put it.
And this is why I think sometimes it is helpful to have a outside
consultant come in to do this.
Because if you are like, Matt, I don't know how you did running communications.
For your company for so long and having to step into that role.
That's why I do think sometimes it's just helpful to have an outside set of eyes.
They can come in with a little bit less of the emotional.
Attachment and they can just help you get strategic.
'cause they do get that rush, you know?
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
I think that detachment is helpful.
I think also that I, the things I took from Amy there, they're certainly
the heightened sense of the moment.
Is there, but the also the things I took from Amy were the steps, and
this is where we get back to the more strategic of the preparedness and some
things I've even seen around having statements already ready for certain
scenarios where if you run a business or you're involved in a business, you
should plan on these things happening.
Right.
We saw several moments throughout the summer, even recently, that have
been flashpoints for conversations and certain things where people
are people and they're gonna, and they're associated with companies and
they're going out and saying things.
You need to be ready for that.
And what I really appreciate from that conversation with Amy was the
preparedness part of it, which I think was hopefully tempers down.
Some of the, some of the adrenaline because you're ready.
Right.
And I, I remember that from some of my corporate days where I wish
more companies were like this.
You know, I worked for a large financial services firm where they
were great at committing to that.
We did tabletop exercises, we did natural disaster exercises, we did
transportation disaster exercises, and I just don't think enough companies do that.
Talk about how they can reach their employees and then how they can
keep their business running and that, I just really appreciated that
out of that conversation with Amy.
Yeah.
It's
all about the planning.
Yeah, it was the planning and strategic components of that too.
For sure, which probably was interesting as I was just thinking about that and is
probably a good segue to our next guest too, as I was thinking about reaching
employees and about social media being one of those ways, particularly when all
of your, so we started this with Lynn and internal communications and how.
You have a disaster.
Sometimes you can't count on your internal communication channels being available.
So remember some folks at certain agency, as we were working with them on crisis
comp saying, well, maybe you should be looking at how you can make use of social
media channels, which takes us to our last most recent guest, which is Valerie
Morrow at Dairy Farmers of America, and her strategic view of both data and
analytics and storytelling via social.
I just found her to be fascinating in the way she approached social and
management of social within a company.
Yeah.
My favorite, I love how she, at their organization, they, they do a lot of
kind of organic storytelling where, you know, they will arm in her this
case, it's the, it's literally the farmers that are kind of the owners.
Of the organization out in the field and how they'll arm them with the ability
to record their own stories and get those back in so that they can be, you
know, merchandised and, and, and used.
And it's a very kind of authentic, organic groundswell way to, to commun.
And of course those get those end up living on their social media sites
and becomes one of the ways they've helped their social channels grow.
I thought that was fascinating.
So I used to have a post-it note on my computer that says,
success looks like faithfulness.
And she said something that was along the same lines.
She said, success is, success is tied to how focused you are.
That's, again, that's a paraphrase.
I need to go back and look at the transcript, but I have thought
about that line so much since then.
I've, I've talked about it with my husband.
I think.
I haven't talked about it with my kids, but I, again, going back to the
messy nonprofit world, I think in.
Especially for nonprofit communicators because they're often teams of one
and they often are working for someone who has all these ideas for how
they're gonna help all these people.
It can be so easy organizationally to get off topic, off mission,
off focus, and the communicator is left trying to keep this messaging
plans, communications plan on track.
'cause they know that if they start pursuing all these different things,
they're actually gonna be saying very little to their audience.
They're not gonna be communicating well, they're not gonna be.
Moving their audience along a funnel.
So when she had that line about success is really based on how focused you can
be, or she just, she really was just saying like, you need to stay focused.
'cause she talked about with her team, I think it was when she was talking about
the Taylor Swift album coming out and how her team maybe had some ideas and
she said, I want you to be strategically, was it strategically focused?
Something like that.
Strategically curious, wasn't it?
Strategically
curious.
There you go.
Thank you.
It was strategically curious and it was tied into that idea of
like, they, they do have a plan.
They, even though she's quote just leading social media, which
that's, I have quotes, so you can't see that, but I'm saying quotes.
There's no just about any part of the communications pie, but communication,
or I'm sorry, social media is a very strategic part of the communications
pie, and I love that she is leading her team from that strategic lens.
She's not just leading social media as if it's just this little lover they need
to pull for dairy Farmers of America, and she's leading her team to think like that.
And you only can do that if you're focused on the goals and priorities
of your company or your organization.
So I love that line.
I love that whole bit about.
Being focused.
Yeah.
The quote I had written down was, she said, social strategy is more
than just posting or chasing trends, which I thought was super important
because preach a lot of young people, certainly students I work around,
obviously they know they're digital natives, they know social media, but it
too often just becomes a conversation board without a lot of, you know,
they, because that's how they live it.
They don't live it as a strategic tool.
And so I think that's why Brenna was so super glad we could get her
on was because she approaches it.
Believe me, if you listen to the episode, she approaches it very strategically.
They don't do anything kind of off the cuff in this, on this platform.
They're, they're all about the strategy, which is just a super important message,
all about the focus, all about the strategy.
Whenever I'm visualizing the work that she does, what you're seeing.
Out there on social is just the tip of the iceberg and it's the surface underneath
all the work's happening below the surface of the water because the other
component that she closed our conversation with, that's just been sticking with
me as I'm working on 2026 planning.
What she was talking about, communi also that focus, but also communicating up.
She ends up becoming a steward of marketing and social, but when Julie
was just sharing the just right, the ju, there is no just about it.
That spoke to me, Julie, because she is sharing.
With folks internally and leadership internally saying, this
is how all this fits together.
And then also that is great coaching for leadership too, to not just,
it's not just new people into the profession that are chasing the trends.
I would encounter this all the time with executive leadership and say they would
see the shiny penny, they would see the Taylor Swift and say, why are we not,
why do we not have orange, creamsicle orange on all of our social posts?
This week is Matt's wearing a creams sick Lauren shirt, or at least
based on my camera view today.
He's a swift, he's definitely, he's a 50.
But to hear her talk about two things, which was one,
communicating up and helping, they're not experts in social media.
How to, how all this is coming together, one.
Then two, to think about your objectives, your OKRs to think about and tie
everything to your OKRs, your objectives and key results if you're in a KR shop
or your KPIs if you're a KPI shop.
But to tie all that, connect all of that, and then also say
some of this stuff takes time.
Too, like it's okay to maybe not change your OKRs or to not change
your plan from year to year and only add a minimal thing here or there.
'cause it takes time for a team to execute.
To hear all that from her, I was like, I was in complete heaven.
Yeah.
She's super, super smart marketer.
I'm so glad we.
She's been our, our most recent episode.
'cause I just got so much out of it.
I, I did not like a lot of our guests.
I didn't really know or hadn't met Valerie before, but just was very, very impressed
and so glad we were able to have her on.
And I feel like she will make a great leader of a company someday.
It sounds like she's very happy doing what she's doing, but as Matt once taught me.
If you have a leader of your organization who understands communications,
it's a blessing and it's rare.
So I don't know.
I feel like if Valerie could keep rising up through the ranks, she
could lead some really good stuff.
Well, you know, IB CED a session a few years ago, a world conference called.
Should the Chief Communications officer be the next CEO in your organization?
Yes,
and and they did it at World Conference in front of the, all the thousand
people there in the general session.
It was a round table and the discussion was on, I think there were a couple
of CEOs that actually came from communications and, and we've had
some of those here in Kansas City.
I know through my, our program at ku, Wendy Gillis, who used to run
Kaufman Foundation, I don't know if you guys know Wendy's name.
She retired, I think a couple years ago.
She ran Kaufman Foundation, which for those who done.
Know, so it's one of, it's the world's largest nonprofit
organization for entrepreneurism.
Mm-hmm.
A multi-billion in assets.
And she came to the CEO role from the role of chief communications officer, and she
blew the search committee away by the fact that she understood audience and nuance
and the things that we're all trained in.
And so off a little bit of a tangent there, but Julie, oh my gosh.
I, you know, gee, you could absolutely see Valerie in a role
like that because she's 100%.
She's got those same kinds of skills and, and it's still rare that we
would see a, a chief communications officer vaulted into the CEO road.
Normally they're gonna come from finance or supply chain or out of the MBA shops.
But it does happen.
And, and, and when it does, I think it's been really successful.
Well in
the leaderships and great communicator and marketing hits are
just gonna keep on coming folks.
So we've got a couple great guests that, and from some very different perspectives.
Both I think that are gonna be interesting from a professional
and career development perspective.
So we've got Jalyn Johnson coming on, we were talking about a
younger, earlier in her career professional that will be a guest.
So we're gonna.
Talk about lessons learned.
She is the director of communications for the local prosecutor's office
here in Kansas City, so Jackson County Prosecutor's office, and
again, earlier in the career.
So there are gonna be a lot of lessons, I think for.
Newer professionals that are gonna resonate.
And then I know LinkedIn, and particularly this group, LinkedIn's
been gonna be a big topic, and so we're bringing an expert in from LinkedIn.
So if you've noticed the change in the algorithm in the machine, there have been.
Material changes to the way LinkedIn's been running.
And so I saw a great presentation earlier in the year with Perna
Vierge at Digital Summit, and Perna has agreed to come on the show.
So we're gonna have her, she's a content marketing evangelist.
Kind of the lines of Joe Pulizzi and she works at LinkedIn and really
talks about how LinkedIn works and the things that work on LinkedIn.
So I think folks are really gonna wanna check out that episode.
And then I know Julie and Matt are working on some other guests as well
that we're gonna be bringing on.
But those two I know we'll be able to sink our teeth into,
metaphorically sink our teeth into.
It's getting close to Halloween.
I, I must be craving the Snickers bar or something.
I don't know, but I'm
always craving,
but we're gonna have those guests on here in short order, so I
know.
I'm looking forward to having them.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It's, it's exciting and I just think that the, the
conversations keep getting better.
And, and Julie, just a shout out to you, you've brought so much to the show and
in terms of your new perspectives and introducing us to a couple of, of avenues,
we haven't walked down in the past.
And, and so I ju, I love where we're going, so let's keep it up guys.
Yep.
Love having you aboard.
Thanks.
I'm looking forward to it.
Yeah, it's fun.
It's fun.
Alright folks, that's gonna do it for the three of us this time.
For Matt and Julie, this is Brent and we will see you next with Jalyn Johnson.
Take care, everybody.
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