WEBVTT NOTE This file was generated by Descript 00:00:00.150 --> 00:00:03.240 Cultivated Marketer, episode 37. 00:00:03.480 --> 00:00:07.080 You can either change yourself or have the world changed for you. 00:00:08.189 --> 00:00:15.420 In this episode of Cultivated marketer, Matt, Julie and I connect to do a bit of 00:00:15.420 --> 00:00:21.150 a recap episode and have a discussion of the last four guests that we've had on 00:00:21.150 --> 00:00:23.425 since Julie Massa has joined the show. 00:00:24.419 --> 00:00:30.060 In it, we recap the Lynn Zimmerman interview around change management 00:00:30.060 --> 00:00:34.979 and change communications crisis with Amy Whitfield. 00:00:35.310 --> 00:00:39.390 We have Fred Cook where we talk communication trends, and then 00:00:39.390 --> 00:00:41.940 the Valerie Marrow episode. 00:00:42.470 --> 00:00:46.040 Where we discuss social media, but there is a common thread through 00:00:46.040 --> 00:00:51.530 this around taking accountability and thinking about strategic planning and 00:00:51.530 --> 00:00:58.100 how you can apply change to yourself in viewing the world around you. 00:00:58.430 --> 00:00:59.930 It's probably the best way to put it. 00:01:00.350 --> 00:01:05.240 And so if that topic interests you, you'll definitely want to hang around and check 00:01:05.240 --> 00:01:11.345 out this recap episode with me, Matt and Julie, discussing our last four guests. 00:01:12.035 --> 00:01:16.355 We also maybe preview some amazing highlights and guests 00:01:16.355 --> 00:01:17.645 that are forthcoming as well. 00:01:17.650 --> 00:01:18.270 So enjoy. 00:01:32.435 --> 00:01:36.845 Welcome to Cultivated Marketer, where we talk marketing professional development, 00:01:36.845 --> 00:01:38.854 so your Garden of Opportunity grows. 00:01:38.854 --> 00:01:39.725 This is Brent Bowen. 00:01:40.085 --> 00:01:40.985 I'm Matt Tidwell. 00:01:41.429 --> 00:01:41.940 And I'm Julie 00:01:41.940 --> 00:01:42.059 Maan. 00:01:43.380 --> 00:01:43.920 All right. 00:01:43.980 --> 00:01:45.480 The gang's here. 00:01:45.540 --> 00:01:51.090 We're going to do this because we've had so many great conversations and 00:01:51.090 --> 00:01:55.380 now that we've also brought Julia aboard, we thought we would, there have 00:01:55.380 --> 00:01:59.220 been so many fabulous insights we've had in each of these conversations. 00:01:59.220 --> 00:02:02.280 We felt like maybe every three to four. 00:02:02.735 --> 00:02:05.255 Episodes the three of us would get together. 00:02:05.255 --> 00:02:08.495 I think I had phrased it this way when we, we got together to 00:02:08.495 --> 00:02:09.755 have a conversation about this. 00:02:09.755 --> 00:02:14.285 The three of us aren't idiots, so I think we could actually pretty 00:02:14.315 --> 00:02:19.025 respected and seasoned in our own regards with respect to, to what we do. 00:02:19.025 --> 00:02:23.375 And so it might be okay for us to share a perspective or two and even 00:02:23.375 --> 00:02:27.845 draw upon the insights and that we've had for maybe each of these guests. 00:02:28.595 --> 00:02:33.305 So we wanted to take the opportunity to maybe recap and reflect on some 00:02:33.305 --> 00:02:36.365 of the different conversations in, in a more meaningful way. 00:02:36.365 --> 00:02:40.295 And we might do this, like I said, every three to four conversations we've hit. 00:02:40.325 --> 00:02:46.175 Now that we've had Julie join us, we've had four guests on, and even though we 00:02:46.175 --> 00:02:50.075 haven't all been present for all them, I know we've participated, at least in 00:02:50.075 --> 00:02:52.205 active least listening to each of those. 00:02:52.205 --> 00:02:56.735 So if folks don't recall or remember, we've had Lynn Zimmerman on. 00:02:57.140 --> 00:03:02.570 Amy Whitfield, Fred Cook, and Valerie Morrow join us over the last couple 00:03:02.570 --> 00:03:04.880 months since we've, we've done the show. 00:03:04.880 --> 00:03:09.290 And so with that, I think we're might just start with, with thinking about Lynn 00:03:09.290 --> 00:03:12.080 and we can go through this organically and I'll make sure I keep scoring. 00:03:12.080 --> 00:03:15.230 We've touch on and we're have a conversation about each of the guests, 00:03:15.230 --> 00:03:16.825 but we can just start with, with Lynn. 00:03:17.769 --> 00:03:18.760 I'll leave that up, Matt. 00:03:18.760 --> 00:03:18.820 Yeah. 00:03:18.850 --> 00:03:21.310 Julie, any, any thoughts on, on that conversation? 00:03:21.459 --> 00:03:25.929 And I just spoke with Lynn, so we get together monthly for, for Lynn and I to 00:03:25.929 --> 00:03:28.144 talk, so I I don't So you're excused? 00:03:28.239 --> 00:03:29.019 I'm excused. 00:03:29.049 --> 00:03:33.250 Well, I don't know if I'm excused, but I could draw upon other conversations 00:03:33.250 --> 00:03:35.019 we've had, so, but I'll leave it 00:03:35.019 --> 00:03:35.530 up to you too. 00:03:35.535 --> 00:03:36.679 You're, you're, you're the lin expert I think. 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:39.880 I think you've known her the longest, but, uh, getting back to how you opened, 00:03:39.910 --> 00:03:41.109 I'm so glad we're doing this, Brent. 00:03:41.109 --> 00:03:44.710 'cause I know, you know, when we think back to version 1.0 of cultivated 00:03:44.710 --> 00:03:50.620 marketing is, or, or, or, uh, b bj as we I say before, Julie, we, you know, 00:03:50.620 --> 00:03:51.730 you and I would do this quite a bit. 00:03:51.730 --> 00:03:54.370 You say, oh gee, those for such great conversations, at some point we need 00:03:54.370 --> 00:03:57.850 to get on and just kind of recap those and, and we've never done that, so I'm 00:03:57.850 --> 00:03:59.440 so glad we're, we're at that point. 00:03:59.440 --> 00:04:00.010 I, I agree. 00:04:00.010 --> 00:04:02.075 This is a great exercise for the three of us to do. 00:04:02.420 --> 00:04:06.649 Yeah, Lynn, again, I took so much from, from Lynn, you know, not only you. 00:04:06.799 --> 00:04:09.410 I think we ostensibly, we came on thinking, well, we're gonna talk to her 00:04:09.410 --> 00:04:12.739 about internal communications 'cause and, and also change communications 00:04:12.739 --> 00:04:15.200 actually really more change on the change communication side. 00:04:15.470 --> 00:04:20.690 But, you know, as both of you know, very well, she's just a, a, an expert on, you 00:04:20.690 --> 00:04:23.900 know, how to build your own brand and, and you know, how to be your, you know, 00:04:23.900 --> 00:04:25.669 be a consultant and, and obviously offer. 00:04:26.005 --> 00:04:28.765 Offer services from a consulting perspective. 00:04:28.765 --> 00:04:31.015 And so we ended up talking a lot about, which was interesting to me 'cause 00:04:31.015 --> 00:04:33.625 I don't, I don't really do that as much, nearly as much as you all do. 00:04:33.625 --> 00:04:37.705 And so, but there's definitely an art in the science to, to kind of hanging out 00:04:37.705 --> 00:04:38.935 your shingle and building your brand. 00:04:38.935 --> 00:04:40.915 And she's just done that really, really well. 00:04:40.915 --> 00:04:43.135 And so I was really glad we were able to cover that part with her. 00:04:43.750 --> 00:04:47.469 Yeah, for me, since, as you guys know, I work with nonprofit communicators, 00:04:47.859 --> 00:04:52.120 so for me, listening to Lynn talk about change management was highly 00:04:52.120 --> 00:04:57.250 applicable because not, as I've said, nonprofits tend to be highly messy. 00:04:57.310 --> 00:05:00.490 I don't know why I love them so much, but I do because nonprofits 00:05:00.490 --> 00:05:02.349 are nine times out of 10. 00:05:02.349 --> 00:05:04.135 9.9 times out of 10. 00:05:04.299 --> 00:05:04.510 Okay. 00:05:04.510 --> 00:05:05.200 I'll give it that. 00:05:05.550 --> 00:05:09.210 They're doing something that's really good and really beneficial for, for whatever 00:05:09.210 --> 00:05:13.140 community they're trying to serve, but they're just often super messy and. 00:05:13.815 --> 00:05:19.005 Ideas and changes can happen frequently, not always well thought out. 00:05:19.005 --> 00:05:23.025 So when Lynn was talking about how to communicate change to an organization, 00:05:23.414 --> 00:05:26.445 pretty much everything she said, I thought this applies to nonprofits. 00:05:26.445 --> 00:05:27.615 This applies to nonprofits. 00:05:27.615 --> 00:05:31.275 This applies to nonprofits because the reality is, is if you can't communicate 00:05:31.275 --> 00:05:33.945 change well in your organization, it's gonna hurt your mission. 00:05:33.945 --> 00:05:36.765 Whether you're a nonprofit or a business trying to accomplish something. 00:05:37.724 --> 00:05:42.495 And we, we don't see that change subsiding, whether it's messy nonprofits 00:05:42.495 --> 00:05:46.784 or it's the advent and continued introduction of new technologies too. 00:05:46.784 --> 00:05:50.745 I know that's something that Lynn, and when we have the opportunity to share 00:05:50.745 --> 00:05:54.555 the show notes, I know Lynn is gonna be front and center in some different 00:05:54.555 --> 00:05:58.695 conversations, different webinars and the like that I think our listeners 00:05:58.695 --> 00:06:01.844 and viewers should be aware of. 00:06:02.555 --> 00:06:06.335 And a lot of that's even gonna be around incorporating technology within 00:06:06.335 --> 00:06:11.255 organizations and the, the change that's required to adopt and then 00:06:11.255 --> 00:06:13.475 make u best use of that technology. 00:06:13.475 --> 00:06:18.155 We're seeing a lot of that in the, in the artificial intelligence space and know, 00:06:18.155 --> 00:06:21.815 and that, that may segue us into some other conversations that we're gonna have, 00:06:22.205 --> 00:06:26.675 you know, have as, as we think about the conversation we had with Fred and then 00:06:26.675 --> 00:06:28.625 even some of our future conversations. 00:06:28.625 --> 00:06:30.365 But, you know, some of that's culture. 00:06:30.650 --> 00:06:30.980 Change. 00:06:30.980 --> 00:06:34.700 I know Julie, having worked with a lot of nonprofits, some of that's mature, like 00:06:34.700 --> 00:06:39.530 just maturity, the organization change and then you're not also, you're also seeing 00:06:39.530 --> 00:06:43.580 a lot of Lynn's work being reflected in, in a lot of technology change. 00:06:43.610 --> 00:06:48.590 'cause I know she's gonna be at a, on a, a webinar here with, with comms futurist, 00:06:49.010 --> 00:06:54.590 so Na Natalie, who's a cohort of Julie and mine on, on comms consultants there. 00:06:54.590 --> 00:06:57.680 So I know Lynn's gonna be front and center in some of that. 00:06:57.995 --> 00:07:00.935 You'll continue to see her at different IABC conferences and 00:07:00.935 --> 00:07:02.225 the like because of that work. 00:07:02.825 --> 00:07:02.975 Yeah. 00:07:02.975 --> 00:07:06.425 The other note that I had that I'm so glad we covered this with Lynn, is we 00:07:06.425 --> 00:07:10.685 tend to, we talked about just kind of terminology and differences, so, you 00:07:10.685 --> 00:07:13.775 know, there's internal communications, there's change communications and, 00:07:14.045 --> 00:07:17.525 and sometimes those can be kind of conflated and she really did a nice 00:07:17.525 --> 00:07:20.105 job of kind of parsing that out, right? 00:07:20.105 --> 00:07:22.985 That change communications really is something where I think she 00:07:22.985 --> 00:07:23.825 talked about it in terms of. 00:07:24.085 --> 00:07:25.734 It has a beginning and an end. 00:07:25.734 --> 00:07:29.875 It's an initiative, whereas internal comms is certainly, can, can encompass 00:07:29.875 --> 00:07:32.635 change, but it's more of the kind of the long game, if you will. 00:07:32.635 --> 00:07:34.255 And, and I think that's super important. 00:07:34.255 --> 00:07:36.594 I know particularly for young professionals who, you know, 00:07:36.594 --> 00:07:39.265 may tend to kind of see them as essentially the same thing. 00:07:39.294 --> 00:07:40.224 They're, they're really not. 00:07:40.224 --> 00:07:42.565 And so I was super glad that she, she was able to cover that. 00:07:43.219 --> 00:07:43.520 Yeah. 00:07:43.520 --> 00:07:47.210 And the also the, yeah, the internal communications change communications 00:07:47.210 --> 00:07:48.590 and even change management. 00:07:48.590 --> 00:07:51.830 The discipline of change management and where the, the inner points of 00:07:51.830 --> 00:07:55.849 intersection are there and how they're different too, and why you need 00:07:55.849 --> 00:07:58.909 that was probably one of my favorite soundbites of that conversation 00:07:58.909 --> 00:08:01.130 from Lynn was the notion of. 00:08:01.225 --> 00:08:06.145 Where internal communications and the communications team has a purview of 00:08:06.205 --> 00:08:09.115 everything that could be happening within an organization where a 00:08:09.115 --> 00:08:13.435 change management practitioner will have extreme depth in that change. 00:08:13.435 --> 00:08:18.445 And so they really are very complimentary resources and roles and team 00:08:18.445 --> 00:08:21.055 members to, to execute a, a change. 00:08:21.055 --> 00:08:24.175 And you need both to be, be successful in that change. 00:08:24.765 --> 00:08:30.135 I will fess up here and say that prior to having Lynn on, I definitely thought 00:08:30.164 --> 00:08:35.655 of her as internal communications, and then as she was talking, I went, oh 00:08:35.655 --> 00:08:40.784 yeah, change communications is, that wasn't even a term I knew prior to Lynn. 00:08:41.115 --> 00:08:45.675 And so what you just described, Brent was really helpful for me because 00:08:45.675 --> 00:08:48.584 the reality is, is those are two different, but complimentary and 00:08:48.584 --> 00:08:51.584 necessary communications fields. 00:08:51.584 --> 00:08:52.540 So yeah, I think about. 00:08:53.125 --> 00:08:55.495 Someone young in their career or even in school trying to 00:08:55.495 --> 00:08:56.725 figure out what they want to do. 00:08:57.205 --> 00:09:01.135 I feel like someone who likes more project-based comms work might appreciate 00:09:01.135 --> 00:09:03.835 change communications because it's the kind of work you can get in. 00:09:04.015 --> 00:09:05.980 You do it for a certain amount of time, and then you get out. 00:09:06.810 --> 00:09:10.770 If you're someone who likes a lot more stability and con consistent types of 00:09:10.770 --> 00:09:12.569 work, they might prefer internal comms. 00:09:12.780 --> 00:09:13.859 Yeah, that's a great point. 00:09:14.010 --> 00:09:16.740 Hey Brad, I got a question for you 'cause I know this came up in the episode 00:09:16.740 --> 00:09:20.550 and I made a note to ask you on, but there, there're more and more folks 00:09:20.550 --> 00:09:24.704 that are in this space are, are getting certifications and things like that. 00:09:24.704 --> 00:09:24.714 Mm-hmm. 00:09:24.714 --> 00:09:27.719 And I know there's a, there's a, I believe a company that does a 00:09:27.719 --> 00:09:30.329 lot of the certifications called Prosci, I think is the name of it. 00:09:30.359 --> 00:09:30.449 Mm-hmm. 00:09:30.689 --> 00:09:33.420 Can you explain that in, in a little more depth in case in case 00:09:33.420 --> 00:09:35.609 people, because I know that came up with you and Len a couple times. 00:09:35.795 --> 00:09:39.064 Well, I know there are some, I'm not gonna be, I'm not gonna profess to 00:09:39.064 --> 00:09:44.915 be the expert on all sorts of change management, so I am a Prosci certified. 00:09:45.095 --> 00:09:45.365 Okay. 00:09:45.454 --> 00:09:49.025 So it's, it's three days worth of, of of training. 00:09:49.025 --> 00:09:50.314 And the best way. 00:09:50.944 --> 00:09:52.265 I can articulate. 00:09:52.265 --> 00:09:57.215 So pro size, one of several change management disciplines, right? 00:09:57.605 --> 00:10:02.975 And if, if I go back to 20 years ago in my career, I would work with 00:10:03.035 --> 00:10:05.795 different consulting firms where they would talk about the change 00:10:05.795 --> 00:10:07.805 curve and getting people from. 00:10:08.165 --> 00:10:10.625 Awareness all the way to commitment. 00:10:11.165 --> 00:10:15.905 So Prosci really is a, there's a, an acronym called acar. 00:10:16.444 --> 00:10:21.365 So it's awareness, desire, knowledge, ability, and reinforcement. 00:10:21.365 --> 00:10:24.875 And most people, they say change is really dedicated. 00:10:25.295 --> 00:10:31.415 It really is about the individual and every individual has to move through 00:10:31.415 --> 00:10:34.745 those points in the acronym to. 00:10:35.165 --> 00:10:38.105 Really deliver the change for an organization. 00:10:38.105 --> 00:10:41.735 And they think about it almost like I used to watch my kids play soccer. 00:10:42.064 --> 00:10:43.745 They would all chase the ball. 00:10:43.745 --> 00:10:48.935 Like you have to have all of the people on the field going through all of those 00:10:48.935 --> 00:10:53.795 points to, to chase the ball and deliver on that, to deliver on that change. 00:10:54.245 --> 00:10:58.145 But when you step back and think about the Prosci model, this is what 00:10:58.145 --> 00:11:03.035 they've really done with Prosci is created a structure and a framework. 00:11:03.579 --> 00:11:05.890 Around three core disciplines. 00:11:06.250 --> 00:11:08.470 One of them is communications. 00:11:08.770 --> 00:11:09.280 Got it. 00:11:09.280 --> 00:11:09.430 Okay. 00:11:09.579 --> 00:11:15.040 So they think they, one is training and then the other one, and this is where 00:11:15.040 --> 00:11:20.290 I think technology deployments, having worked on a number of corporate and 00:11:20.290 --> 00:11:24.939 then also helped a number of companies with their technology selection. 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:28.840 So, you know, if I go back to my time at Sprint and working at Sprint, 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:31.150 Nextel with the MER, when they merged. 00:11:31.500 --> 00:11:35.790 I was helping with them basically lead change through the 00:11:35.790 --> 00:11:37.800 organization on new technology. 00:11:38.400 --> 00:11:42.344 And the, as part of that, we had governance structures in place that, 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:47.310 that included executive leadership, creating governing bodies and 00:11:47.310 --> 00:11:49.410 making good governed decisions. 00:11:49.650 --> 00:11:53.579 And so to me, Prosci is really three legs of ESOLs comms. 00:11:53.955 --> 00:11:58.725 Training and governance, and you're seeing these really disciplined 00:11:58.725 --> 00:12:00.585 organizations are getting more mature. 00:12:00.585 --> 00:12:05.895 It's things we all worked on decades ago, but you have companies like Prosci really 00:12:05.895 --> 00:12:07.935 putting a solid framework around it. 00:12:08.325 --> 00:12:10.605 So people are really interested in that kind of work. 00:12:10.605 --> 00:12:11.625 As Julie referenced. 00:12:11.640 --> 00:12:16.620 The, the real meaty project, like you really wanna affect big, meaty project 00:12:17.069 --> 00:12:19.319 type change throughout an organization. 00:12:19.560 --> 00:12:23.189 Things like pros, you see a lot of communications practitioners move 00:12:23.189 --> 00:12:28.530 into change management and it, it gets really detailed into the execution. 00:12:28.530 --> 00:12:29.189 But pro size. 00:12:29.189 --> 00:12:33.365 One example of that that I happen to be, I got certified in it a couple years ago. 00:12:34.165 --> 00:12:35.305 I was working with a firm. 00:12:35.485 --> 00:12:35.785 Yep. 00:12:35.785 --> 00:12:36.505 Thanks. 00:12:36.565 --> 00:12:37.045 Yeah, yeah. 00:12:37.105 --> 00:12:38.185 Thanks for clarification. 00:12:38.545 --> 00:12:42.955 Yeah, and speaking of change, I mi I might move us on to one of our next folks 00:12:42.955 --> 00:12:48.295 is, and not gonna go linear per se, but I guess Fred maybe talk about Fred and 00:12:48.295 --> 00:12:50.185 then we can talk about Amy after Fred. 00:12:50.215 --> 00:12:53.440 'cause I think that would be, I've gotta good segue in mind there as 00:12:53.440 --> 00:12:57.415 we, we had Amy on, but we think about change, that was all of that 00:12:57.415 --> 00:13:01.825 conversation we had with Fred was really around the things that are gonna be. 00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:06.740 Front and center for specifically PR practitioners, but really I would say 00:13:06.740 --> 00:13:11.030 communications and marketing professionals all over about the things we need to be 00:13:11.030 --> 00:13:12.860 thinking about from a change standpoint. 00:13:13.490 --> 00:13:15.770 Yeah, I think to tag onto that, Brent, I, I think that, yeah, I'm 00:13:15.770 --> 00:13:18.605 so glad that we walked down the change road with Fred because you. 00:13:18.870 --> 00:13:21.510 You know, in his current role where he's leading University of Southern 00:13:21.510 --> 00:13:24.780 California's Annenberg Center for Public Relations, I mean, that's 00:13:24.780 --> 00:13:28.020 a, it's just about as prestigious a name as you can find in our, in our 00:13:28.020 --> 00:13:30.540 business in terms of future forecasting. 00:13:30.540 --> 00:13:30.690 Right. 00:13:30.690 --> 00:13:34.380 They come out with their annual comms report every year and they look at 00:13:34.380 --> 00:13:38.880 movers and, and drivers and, you know, broadly, but certainly in communications. 00:13:38.880 --> 00:13:42.780 And so, yeah, I'm, I'm really glad that we got, we were on long enough with him that 00:13:42.780 --> 00:13:45.870 we could get a, a chance to talk about some of those, some of those factors. 00:13:45.870 --> 00:13:47.550 'cause Yeah, that's, that's really where they. 00:13:47.610 --> 00:13:48.990 Center most of their activities. 00:13:49.470 --> 00:13:52.530 Yeah, I was a little jealous that I had to miss this interview. 00:13:52.560 --> 00:13:57.330 So when I went, especially once I went to listen to it, so I got to listen to it. 00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:00.510 Like all of our listeners listening to this one, that too 00:14:00.510 --> 00:14:01.890 many listens in one sentence. 00:14:02.555 --> 00:14:04.110 I, I love that interview. 00:14:04.110 --> 00:14:07.140 And what I, there's two things that I was really fascinated by and I can't remember 00:14:07.140 --> 00:14:10.020 the exact words for the second one, so you guys are gonna have to help me out. 00:14:10.350 --> 00:14:13.050 But the first thing that I loved was when he gave that example of, 00:14:13.170 --> 00:14:14.550 I think it was, was it Nintendo? 00:14:14.885 --> 00:14:19.355 He was pitching to the president of Nintendo for this thing, and 00:14:19.535 --> 00:14:22.445 the, the president of Nintendo was like, no, we're not doing that. 00:14:22.835 --> 00:14:24.755 And Fred basically told him. 00:14:24.840 --> 00:14:26.400 If you're an idiot, you should do this. 00:14:26.400 --> 00:14:29.910 I mean, that's not the word that, that's me paraphrasing Ed for Frank, 00:14:29.915 --> 00:14:34.680 that was the message and the fact that the, like the guy did it. 00:14:34.860 --> 00:14:38.940 So for me, especially as a, a female in this industry, I thought, wow, I 00:14:38.940 --> 00:14:42.540 don't know that I would've had the guts to say, Hey, I think you should do it. 00:14:42.540 --> 00:14:44.775 So I loved just hearing his confidence to. 00:14:45.825 --> 00:14:47.835 You should do this, then I think you're crazy if you don't. 00:14:47.985 --> 00:14:51.285 And I think that comes from, as he shared more of his story and how he got 00:14:51.285 --> 00:14:54.675 there and the assignment, or I don't know if it's assignment he asked his 00:14:54.675 --> 00:14:57.945 students to do and what's the name of it, Matt, where he asked students to 00:14:57.945 --> 00:14:59.355 have like do something uncomfortable. 00:14:59.355 --> 00:14:59.445 Yeah. 00:14:59.775 --> 00:15:01.335 He calls it the ask the captain. 00:15:01.335 --> 00:15:03.975 And because it's, you know, it relates to that story he told what 00:15:03.975 --> 00:15:05.385 was on the episode about, you know. 00:15:05.570 --> 00:15:08.780 Going back and asking the tanker ship captain if he could, and then 00:15:08.780 --> 00:15:12.020 he ends up traveling in Asia for like two years as a result of that. 00:15:12.020 --> 00:15:12.140 Well, 00:15:12.140 --> 00:15:16.310 he, he would've not, he would not have been able to make that kind of an ask 00:15:16.580 --> 00:15:21.950 of the president of Nintendo without having all of that experience behind him. 00:15:21.950 --> 00:15:23.780 So that was just a good reminder. 00:15:23.780 --> 00:15:27.465 I think for me, within my career, there's things I have to do. 00:15:28.204 --> 00:15:29.255 Should do. 00:15:29.314 --> 00:15:31.385 Don't wanna do, but I know I really should. 00:15:31.385 --> 00:15:33.035 That feel really uncomfortable. 00:15:33.155 --> 00:15:35.104 But you have to be able to do those things. 00:15:35.104 --> 00:15:37.775 And I even looking back within my career, especially when I was 00:15:37.775 --> 00:15:43.744 leading comms in-house, I didn't go from marketing manager to CCO in 00:15:43.744 --> 00:15:47.375 eight years because I was willing to just sit and say, okay, yes sir. 00:15:47.375 --> 00:15:47.645 Sure. 00:15:47.645 --> 00:15:48.094 Yes ma'am. 00:15:48.094 --> 00:15:50.464 You know, like I had to learn how to push. 00:15:50.464 --> 00:15:50.525 Yeah. 00:15:50.525 --> 00:15:52.954 And do what was uncomfortable in a respectful. 00:15:53.045 --> 00:15:54.305 Bridge building way. 00:15:54.694 --> 00:15:56.854 And so I love that example that he provided. 00:15:56.854 --> 00:15:57.905 I thought that was really good. 00:15:58.055 --> 00:15:59.555 And yes, I'm still jealous. 00:15:59.915 --> 00:16:01.564 Not offended, but jealous. 00:16:01.564 --> 00:16:02.584 I had to miss that one. 00:16:03.094 --> 00:16:04.385 It was, it was my own choice. 00:16:04.385 --> 00:16:05.675 It did not work for my schedule. 00:16:05.704 --> 00:16:06.964 So it's not like they cut me out. 00:16:07.775 --> 00:16:09.125 No, uh, that's a great perspective. 00:16:09.125 --> 00:16:12.454 And I think the way he relates it now is obviously he's a college professor. 00:16:12.454 --> 00:16:15.314 As, as you know, Julie, you and I are, and Brent, you've done teaching as well. 00:16:16.050 --> 00:16:19.740 His point is, is that so many of these students are just, for whatever 00:16:19.740 --> 00:16:22.500 reason, they're just, they're very reticent to kind of go out 00:16:22.500 --> 00:16:23.520 and get outta their comfort zone. 00:16:23.700 --> 00:16:28.830 And point being, you're not gonna rise to any substantial level in terms of 00:16:28.830 --> 00:16:30.630 career if you're not willing to do that. 00:16:30.630 --> 00:16:33.180 And so I think that that's really, to me, the beauty of that. 00:16:33.180 --> 00:16:36.660 And yeah, he creates an entire class exercise out of it that I'm now 00:16:36.660 --> 00:16:40.080 gonna shamelessly steal for my own leadership class, because I just 00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:42.660 think it's, it's a great way to kind of illustrate that to folks. 00:16:43.350 --> 00:16:46.680 Yeah, that the whole notion of the comfort zone, and we were talking about this just 00:16:46.680 --> 00:16:51.000 for a moment before we hit record, is I, that has resonated so much with me. 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:57.300 The notion of just not giving into fear, navigating around fear, throwing 00:16:57.300 --> 00:17:01.140 yourself into something you're afraid of, and it was something I, I think I 00:17:01.140 --> 00:17:05.100 mentioned, I shared with you all that Anita Newton, who's the Chief Innovation 00:17:05.100 --> 00:17:09.900 Officer at Community America in town, had started a LinkedIn conversation around. 00:17:10.304 --> 00:17:14.774 One where she was working with students and she said, well, you can either get 00:17:14.774 --> 00:17:18.704 comfortable on the couch when you go home at night, or you can continue to 00:17:18.704 --> 00:17:23.325 commit to your craft and do something that you're not, you're not necessarily, 00:17:23.325 --> 00:17:25.395 that's unknown to you, basically. 00:17:25.694 --> 00:17:30.075 And she was talking about her adoption of ai and so she goes home 00:17:30.075 --> 00:17:31.485 every night and just plays with. 00:17:31.905 --> 00:17:36.315 AI for a little bit, for about an hour to just continue to get comfortable with it. 00:17:36.315 --> 00:17:40.845 And I, I ended up expressing to her, I said, this sounds so much like the story 00:17:40.845 --> 00:17:46.755 Fred had talked about when he took the students to the music agency and the 00:17:46.755 --> 00:17:50.175 agency had admitted, said these musicians. 00:17:50.175 --> 00:17:53.265 So I think about all these super talented musicians, right? 00:17:53.655 --> 00:17:57.045 And the difference between success and failure based on working with 00:17:57.045 --> 00:18:00.285 this agency is how persistent and how annoying are you. 00:18:00.310 --> 00:18:04.750 And be and reminding them that you're there because the margin and talent 00:18:04.750 --> 00:18:07.659 every, there's so many people in the world that are talented, are 00:18:07.659 --> 00:18:11.770 you willing to do what it's gonna take to be found to be discovered. 00:18:12.010 --> 00:18:15.940 This might be a good time to show you my mug that says Comms professionally 00:18:15.940 --> 00:18:17.260 annoying for the greater good. 00:18:20.260 --> 00:18:23.560 So you do get to be a little bit annoying to be really good at your, at your craft 00:18:23.710 --> 00:18:24.610 merch site, please. 00:18:24.610 --> 00:18:25.659 For the show notes on, yeah. 00:18:25.750 --> 00:18:26.835 Yeah, exactly. 00:18:28.264 --> 00:18:28.415 Yeah. 00:18:28.415 --> 00:18:30.754 You know, the, the other reason that I ask the captain resonates with that. 00:18:30.754 --> 00:18:34.295 Julie, I know you talk a lot about the difference between being tactical and 00:18:34.295 --> 00:18:37.295 being strategic, and I'm sure you work with your students on that, as do i. 00:18:37.565 --> 00:18:41.045 I think this aspect of, if you don't learn how to, as a young professional, if you 00:18:41.045 --> 00:18:44.675 don't learn how to get outta your comfort zone, you're, you, frankly, that making 00:18:44.675 --> 00:18:48.879 that leap from tactician to strategist is gonna be more difficult because, you know. 00:18:49.250 --> 00:18:52.640 Juliana, you and I have a, a good personal connection Professor Angie 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:55.340 Hendershot at at University of Kansas, who always tells students, 00:18:55.460 --> 00:18:56.630 you gotta have a perspective, right? 00:18:56.630 --> 00:18:59.960 You gotta have a strategic perspective to be able to offer 00:19:00.230 --> 00:19:01.580 to your client, et cetera. 00:19:01.580 --> 00:19:04.130 When you get out there in the quote, real world, and, and if you're not 00:19:04.130 --> 00:19:08.450 able to ask the captain, if you're not able to, to even just get that initial 00:19:08.450 --> 00:19:12.080 yes, that gets you out of your comfort zone, then you're not gonna be able 00:19:12.080 --> 00:19:15.200 to, to be ultimate, or it's gonna be much harder, let's put it that way, 00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:17.240 to turn into a strategist ultimately. 00:19:17.995 --> 00:19:21.835 Angie is also the first person I ever heard say, don't let 00:19:21.835 --> 00:19:23.455 perfection be the enemy of good. 00:19:23.455 --> 00:19:23.515 Yeah. 00:19:23.575 --> 00:19:27.145 Or it was either that one or she said, done is better than perfect. 00:19:27.175 --> 00:19:30.475 And you know, to hear your professor, it's say that to you when you're working on 00:19:30.475 --> 00:19:34.375 this huge semester long research project to go, wait, done is better than perfect. 00:19:34.375 --> 00:19:34.945 Are you sure? 00:19:35.515 --> 00:19:36.085 But that, I know. 00:19:36.115 --> 00:19:36.625 That's what I see. 00:19:36.625 --> 00:19:38.065 My own kids, my own teenagers. 00:19:38.065 --> 00:19:41.065 Sometimes there's this hesitancy to just, just do the thing. 00:19:41.065 --> 00:19:41.995 It doesn't have to be perfect. 00:19:41.995 --> 00:19:42.625 Just do it. 00:19:42.775 --> 00:19:44.395 Just take a step forward, do the next thing. 00:19:45.090 --> 00:19:48.630 I once had a CEO who used to say, not everything has to be an A paper. 00:19:48.750 --> 00:19:49.200 That's right. 00:19:49.590 --> 00:19:51.750 And just because he had a business to run. 00:19:51.750 --> 00:19:52.050 Right. 00:19:52.050 --> 00:19:55.140 And so, yes, he wanted people to be strategic, but he would, 00:19:55.140 --> 00:19:56.160 he had the plaque on his wall. 00:19:56.160 --> 00:20:00.090 Not everything has to be an A paper, which if you're not 00:20:00.090 --> 00:20:03.120 able to get outta your comfort zone for the things that you're. 00:20:03.764 --> 00:20:08.715 Passionate about, then how are you going to do what Amy Whitfield does? 00:20:09.014 --> 00:20:09.225 Hmm. 00:20:09.495 --> 00:20:10.245 Oh gosh. 00:20:10.425 --> 00:20:12.435 That's a, that's some segue. 00:20:13.335 --> 00:20:14.595 Nice segue to our next guest. 00:20:14.835 --> 00:20:18.675 I could not do what Amy does, which is why she's new I Cole, when I 00:20:18.675 --> 00:20:20.295 have a correct comp situation. 00:20:20.415 --> 00:20:22.155 I used to call when I was doing comps and house. 00:20:22.155 --> 00:20:23.835 Now she's who I recommend to everyone. 00:20:24.254 --> 00:20:27.045 Which on some level, you know, she loves nonprofit. 00:20:27.045 --> 00:20:29.264 She loves the faith-based organization. 00:20:29.264 --> 00:20:31.035 That's why she does what she does. 00:20:31.035 --> 00:20:35.235 But at the same time, if you're not willing to th the her, the ability 00:20:35.235 --> 00:20:39.525 for someone like that to help people prepare to deal with the worst. 00:20:39.945 --> 00:20:43.545 That could happen is to me just such a remarkable gift. 00:20:44.090 --> 00:20:44.925 Yes, yes. 00:20:45.015 --> 00:20:45.315 Yeah. 00:20:45.315 --> 00:20:46.095 I'm so glad we utter. 00:20:46.095 --> 00:20:48.315 I mean, you know, I, I do a lot of work in crisis communications. 00:20:48.315 --> 00:20:50.625 Obviously I teach and I do some consulting in it as well. 00:20:50.625 --> 00:20:54.615 But what was fascinating to me is even in the best of situations when 00:20:54.615 --> 00:20:58.245 you're managing crisis comms for an organization, it's stressful. 00:20:58.515 --> 00:21:01.935 But when you talk about the kinds of, of organizations that she often 00:21:01.935 --> 00:21:05.535 represents, there's, and Juliana, you know this segment very well. 00:21:05.655 --> 00:21:09.255 The stakes can be even higher because emotions are high. 00:21:09.500 --> 00:21:13.760 People have a strong sense of connectivity because these are religious organizations 00:21:13.760 --> 00:21:18.050 in many cases, and I was just fascinated that that's her segment and, and it 00:21:18.050 --> 00:21:20.720 just struck me that that's a high stakes environment to be operating in. 00:21:21.470 --> 00:21:21.860 Yes. 00:21:21.860 --> 00:21:26.090 I once heard her say, I don't remember who was on this podcast with us, or I, I bring 00:21:26.090 --> 00:21:29.420 her in to meet with my nonprofit clients because I think if you're gonna, if you're 00:21:29.420 --> 00:21:33.260 gonna do communications well, you need to know who to call when things go poorly. 00:21:33.860 --> 00:21:36.500 And she, she gives this example of how. 00:21:36.755 --> 00:21:41.045 Her head loves crisis communications because it's, it's such a puzzle and 00:21:41.045 --> 00:21:43.715 there's so much to figure out, but her heart does not, and that it's 00:21:43.715 --> 00:21:47.435 really hard for her heart, which is why I think you have to do that work 00:21:47.435 --> 00:21:48.785 a little bit with ebbs and flows. 00:21:48.785 --> 00:21:50.915 I don't know that it's something you can do forever. 00:21:50.915 --> 00:21:52.475 I don't know that it's something you can do year round. 00:21:52.475 --> 00:21:53.045 She does. 00:21:53.915 --> 00:21:56.915 She's also in a different life phase, I think with grown kids where it makes it 00:21:56.915 --> 00:22:01.655 a little bit more doable, but I could not do crisis comms as a, as a career. 00:22:01.745 --> 00:22:01.925 No. 00:22:01.925 --> 00:22:02.135 Thank you. 00:22:02.760 --> 00:22:03.690 It's a hard no for me. 00:22:03.960 --> 00:22:04.320 Yeah. 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:05.040 Yeah. 00:22:05.040 --> 00:22:09.420 You know, I, I will say though, that crisis, uh, it's been, it's 00:22:09.420 --> 00:22:13.440 been easier for me to teach it because I lived it during my 25 00:22:13.440 --> 00:22:14.430 years working in the profession. 00:22:14.430 --> 00:22:17.250 I had product recalls and employee layoffs and plant closures, 00:22:17.250 --> 00:22:18.600 and, you know, you name it. 00:22:18.655 --> 00:22:19.645 Product tampering. 00:22:19.675 --> 00:22:21.115 If, if it happened, I, I did it. 00:22:21.475 --> 00:22:24.024 But the, and yeah, those were very stressful. 00:22:24.024 --> 00:22:26.425 Usually two or three week kind of time periods. 00:22:26.695 --> 00:22:30.504 But it's so funny because you're, you're operating at such a 00:22:30.504 --> 00:22:33.774 high level there and you're so acutely aware of what's going on. 00:22:33.985 --> 00:22:37.254 Every like single day that you were in, that is burned into your memory. 00:22:37.254 --> 00:22:38.695 So like, I don't even need notes. 00:22:38.865 --> 00:22:42.255 When I talked to my class about the, the plant explosion that we had, 00:22:42.255 --> 00:22:45.735 that unfortunately killed a couple of of workers because I remember 00:22:45.735 --> 00:22:49.275 that day or those two days actually just like it was yesterday because 00:22:49.275 --> 00:22:50.655 I know exactly what I was doing. 00:22:50.660 --> 00:22:53.085 And, and students will be like, gee, how do you remember that? 00:22:53.415 --> 00:22:56.295 You know, that shrubs 'cause any of us who are working in a crisis, 00:22:56.565 --> 00:22:58.155 those memories stick with you. 00:22:58.155 --> 00:23:01.845 And so I was glad we had Amy on 'cause she, she was able to, to talk about 00:23:01.845 --> 00:23:05.145 the entire soup, the nuts process of, of crisis communications, which 00:23:05.145 --> 00:23:07.215 is definitely both art and science. 00:23:07.740 --> 00:23:11.520 I remember where I was with my first major crisis where I was the comms lead 00:23:11.520 --> 00:23:13.200 and I remember sitting on the steps. 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:14.760 I remember having to type out, mm-hmm. 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:17.250 Starting on my phone because it was so urgent. 00:23:17.250 --> 00:23:19.680 I had to start typing out the possible public statement we 00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:22.110 had to release and man way. 00:23:22.110 --> 00:23:22.290 For 00:23:22.290 --> 00:23:23.790 some people, that's a rush, right? 00:23:23.790 --> 00:23:25.025 I mean, I know people in crisis. 00:23:25.919 --> 00:23:28.139 I dunno, Brett, if you know any long-term crisis communications 00:23:28.139 --> 00:23:32.460 folks, but they're always that you, you sort of have to compartmentalize. 00:23:32.460 --> 00:23:35.580 I mean, obviously you're there to do a job, but, but it's, it 00:23:35.580 --> 00:23:36.810 definitely gets your adrenaline going. 00:23:36.810 --> 00:23:37.889 Maybe that's a better way to put it. 00:23:39.030 --> 00:23:41.790 And this is why I think sometimes it is helpful to have a outside 00:23:41.790 --> 00:23:43.320 consultant come in to do this. 00:23:43.320 --> 00:23:47.370 Because if you are like, Matt, I don't know how you did running communications. 00:23:47.415 --> 00:23:51.435 For your company for so long and having to step into that role. 00:23:51.675 --> 00:23:55.155 That's why I do think sometimes it's just helpful to have an outside set of eyes. 00:23:55.335 --> 00:23:57.795 They can come in with a little bit less of the emotional. 00:23:58.139 --> 00:24:00.360 Attachment and they can just help you get strategic. 00:24:00.689 --> 00:24:02.189 'cause they do get that rush, you know? 00:24:02.820 --> 00:24:03.449 Yeah, for sure. 00:24:03.780 --> 00:24:04.080 Yeah. 00:24:04.080 --> 00:24:05.790 I think that detachment is helpful. 00:24:05.790 --> 00:24:10.230 I think also that I, the things I took from Amy there, they're certainly 00:24:10.230 --> 00:24:13.740 the heightened sense of the moment. 00:24:14.189 --> 00:24:18.209 Is there, but the also the things I took from Amy were the steps, and 00:24:18.209 --> 00:24:23.159 this is where we get back to the more strategic of the preparedness and some 00:24:23.159 --> 00:24:27.600 things I've even seen around having statements already ready for certain 00:24:27.600 --> 00:24:32.850 scenarios where if you run a business or you're involved in a business, you 00:24:32.850 --> 00:24:34.740 should plan on these things happening. 00:24:35.280 --> 00:24:35.730 Right. 00:24:36.120 --> 00:24:40.590 We saw several moments throughout the summer, even recently, that have 00:24:40.590 --> 00:24:46.590 been flashpoints for conversations and certain things where people 00:24:46.590 --> 00:24:49.860 are people and they're gonna, and they're associated with companies and 00:24:49.860 --> 00:24:51.030 they're going out and saying things. 00:24:51.330 --> 00:24:52.890 You need to be ready for that. 00:24:52.890 --> 00:24:56.160 And what I really appreciate from that conversation with Amy was the 00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:00.780 preparedness part of it, which I think was hopefully tempers down. 00:25:01.025 --> 00:25:04.385 Some of the, some of the adrenaline because you're ready. 00:25:04.745 --> 00:25:05.045 Right. 00:25:05.045 --> 00:25:08.825 And I, I remember that from some of my corporate days where I wish 00:25:08.825 --> 00:25:10.715 more companies were like this. 00:25:10.775 --> 00:25:14.525 You know, I worked for a large financial services firm where they 00:25:14.525 --> 00:25:16.415 were great at committing to that. 00:25:16.415 --> 00:25:21.635 We did tabletop exercises, we did natural disaster exercises, we did 00:25:21.635 --> 00:25:28.055 transportation disaster exercises, and I just don't think enough companies do that. 00:25:28.980 --> 00:25:32.250 Talk about how they can reach their employees and then how they can 00:25:32.250 --> 00:25:35.730 keep their business running and that, I just really appreciated that 00:25:35.790 --> 00:25:37.320 out of that conversation with Amy. 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:37.500 Yeah. 00:25:37.500 --> 00:25:37.590 It's 00:25:37.590 --> 00:25:38.490 all about the planning. 00:25:38.790 --> 00:25:41.520 Yeah, it was the planning and strategic components of that too. 00:25:41.969 --> 00:25:48.209 For sure, which probably was interesting as I was just thinking about that and is 00:25:48.330 --> 00:25:51.629 probably a good segue to our next guest too, as I was thinking about reaching 00:25:51.629 --> 00:25:56.219 employees and about social media being one of those ways, particularly when all 00:25:56.219 --> 00:26:00.899 of your, so we started this with Lynn and internal communications and how. 00:26:01.095 --> 00:26:02.265 You have a disaster. 00:26:02.265 --> 00:26:06.945 Sometimes you can't count on your internal communication channels being available. 00:26:06.945 --> 00:26:11.895 So remember some folks at certain agency, as we were working with them on crisis 00:26:11.895 --> 00:26:16.035 comp saying, well, maybe you should be looking at how you can make use of social 00:26:16.035 --> 00:26:21.525 media channels, which takes us to our last most recent guest, which is Valerie 00:26:21.525 --> 00:26:26.895 Morrow at Dairy Farmers of America, and her strategic view of both data and 00:26:26.895 --> 00:26:30.045 analytics and storytelling via social. 00:26:30.825 --> 00:26:34.485 I just found her to be fascinating in the way she approached social and 00:26:34.755 --> 00:26:36.825 management of social within a company. 00:26:37.125 --> 00:26:37.695 Yeah. 00:26:37.725 --> 00:26:42.375 My favorite, I love how she, at their organization, they, they do a lot of 00:26:42.375 --> 00:26:46.155 kind of organic storytelling where, you know, they will arm in her this 00:26:46.155 --> 00:26:49.545 case, it's the, it's literally the farmers that are kind of the owners. 00:26:49.935 --> 00:26:53.325 Of the organization out in the field and how they'll arm them with the ability 00:26:53.325 --> 00:26:57.495 to record their own stories and get those back in so that they can be, you 00:26:57.495 --> 00:26:59.835 know, merchandised and, and, and used. 00:26:59.835 --> 00:27:04.725 And it's a very kind of authentic, organic groundswell way to, to commun. 00:27:04.725 --> 00:27:07.485 And of course those get those end up living on their social media sites 00:27:07.485 --> 00:27:10.725 and becomes one of the ways they've helped their social channels grow. 00:27:10.725 --> 00:27:11.774 I thought that was fascinating. 00:27:12.495 --> 00:27:15.375 So I used to have a post-it note on my computer that says, 00:27:15.375 --> 00:27:17.565 success looks like faithfulness. 00:27:17.955 --> 00:27:21.285 And she said something that was along the same lines. 00:27:21.285 --> 00:27:25.785 She said, success is, success is tied to how focused you are. 00:27:25.785 --> 00:27:27.135 That's, again, that's a paraphrase. 00:27:27.135 --> 00:27:29.805 I need to go back and look at the transcript, but I have thought 00:27:29.805 --> 00:27:32.325 about that line so much since then. 00:27:32.325 --> 00:27:34.125 I've, I've talked about it with my husband. 00:27:34.545 --> 00:27:34.754 I think. 00:27:34.754 --> 00:27:38.055 I haven't talked about it with my kids, but I, again, going back to the 00:27:38.055 --> 00:27:41.115 messy nonprofit world, I think in. 00:27:41.460 --> 00:27:44.970 Especially for nonprofit communicators because they're often teams of one 00:27:44.970 --> 00:27:48.000 and they often are working for someone who has all these ideas for how 00:27:48.000 --> 00:27:49.530 they're gonna help all these people. 00:27:49.950 --> 00:27:54.750 It can be so easy organizationally to get off topic, off mission, 00:27:54.780 --> 00:27:59.910 off focus, and the communicator is left trying to keep this messaging 00:27:59.910 --> 00:28:01.920 plans, communications plan on track. 00:28:02.250 --> 00:28:04.980 'cause they know that if they start pursuing all these different things, 00:28:05.190 --> 00:28:07.620 they're actually gonna be saying very little to their audience. 00:28:07.620 --> 00:28:09.720 They're not gonna be communicating well, they're not gonna be. 00:28:10.045 --> 00:28:11.785 Moving their audience along a funnel. 00:28:11.995 --> 00:28:16.915 So when she had that line about success is really based on how focused you can 00:28:16.915 --> 00:28:19.585 be, or she just, she really was just saying like, you need to stay focused. 00:28:19.585 --> 00:28:22.375 'cause she talked about with her team, I think it was when she was talking about 00:28:22.375 --> 00:28:27.235 the Taylor Swift album coming out and how her team maybe had some ideas and 00:28:27.235 --> 00:28:30.115 she said, I want you to be strategically, was it strategically focused? 00:28:30.395 --> 00:28:31.175 Something like that. 00:28:31.175 --> 00:28:32.255 Strategically curious, wasn't it? 00:28:32.255 --> 00:28:32.765 Strategically 00:28:32.765 --> 00:28:33.275 curious. 00:28:33.275 --> 00:28:33.755 There you go. 00:28:33.755 --> 00:28:34.145 Thank you. 00:28:34.145 --> 00:28:37.295 It was strategically curious and it was tied into that idea of 00:28:37.385 --> 00:28:39.125 like, they, they do have a plan. 00:28:39.125 --> 00:28:42.755 They, even though she's quote just leading social media, which 00:28:42.755 --> 00:28:45.905 that's, I have quotes, so you can't see that, but I'm saying quotes. 00:28:46.695 --> 00:28:51.854 There's no just about any part of the communications pie, but communication, 00:28:51.885 --> 00:28:56.205 or I'm sorry, social media is a very strategic part of the communications 00:28:56.205 --> 00:29:00.405 pie, and I love that she is leading her team from that strategic lens. 00:29:00.645 --> 00:29:04.215 She's not just leading social media as if it's just this little lover they need 00:29:04.215 --> 00:29:08.564 to pull for dairy Farmers of America, and she's leading her team to think like that. 00:29:08.564 --> 00:29:11.895 And you only can do that if you're focused on the goals and priorities 00:29:11.895 --> 00:29:13.635 of your company or your organization. 00:29:13.905 --> 00:29:14.925 So I love that line. 00:29:14.955 --> 00:29:16.245 I love that whole bit about. 00:29:16.500 --> 00:29:17.280 Being focused. 00:29:17.430 --> 00:29:17.580 Yeah. 00:29:17.580 --> 00:29:20.280 The quote I had written down was, she said, social strategy is more 00:29:20.280 --> 00:29:23.760 than just posting or chasing trends, which I thought was super important 00:29:23.760 --> 00:29:27.180 because preach a lot of young people, certainly students I work around, 00:29:27.540 --> 00:29:31.170 obviously they know they're digital natives, they know social media, but it 00:29:31.170 --> 00:29:35.010 too often just becomes a conversation board without a lot of, you know, 00:29:35.010 --> 00:29:36.450 they, because that's how they live it. 00:29:36.450 --> 00:29:38.310 They don't live it as a strategic tool. 00:29:38.520 --> 00:29:41.399 And so I think that's why Brenna was so super glad we could get her 00:29:41.399 --> 00:29:43.740 on was because she approaches it. 00:29:44.195 --> 00:29:47.465 Believe me, if you listen to the episode, she approaches it very strategically. 00:29:47.615 --> 00:29:50.975 They don't do anything kind of off the cuff in this, on this platform. 00:29:50.975 --> 00:29:54.395 They're, they're all about the strategy, which is just a super important message, 00:29:54.725 --> 00:29:57.215 all about the focus, all about the strategy. 00:29:57.215 --> 00:30:01.475 Whenever I'm visualizing the work that she does, what you're seeing. 00:30:02.015 --> 00:30:06.365 Out there on social is just the tip of the iceberg and it's the surface underneath 00:30:06.365 --> 00:30:09.725 all the work's happening below the surface of the water because the other 00:30:09.725 --> 00:30:14.165 component that she closed our conversation with, that's just been sticking with 00:30:14.165 --> 00:30:17.060 me as I'm working on 2026 planning. 00:30:17.929 --> 00:30:22.460 What she was talking about, communi also that focus, but also communicating up. 00:30:22.909 --> 00:30:29.179 She ends up becoming a steward of marketing and social, but when Julie 00:30:29.179 --> 00:30:33.919 was just sharing the just right, the ju, there is no just about it. 00:30:33.919 --> 00:30:38.030 That spoke to me, Julie, because she is sharing. 00:30:38.110 --> 00:30:41.709 With folks internally and leadership internally saying, this 00:30:41.709 --> 00:30:44.139 is how all this fits together. 00:30:44.649 --> 00:30:49.929 And then also that is great coaching for leadership too, to not just, 00:30:50.139 --> 00:30:53.919 it's not just new people into the profession that are chasing the trends. 00:30:54.250 --> 00:30:57.879 I would encounter this all the time with executive leadership and say they would 00:30:57.879 --> 00:31:02.889 see the shiny penny, they would see the Taylor Swift and say, why are we not, 00:31:02.919 --> 00:31:07.149 why do we not have orange, creamsicle orange on all of our social posts? 00:31:07.170 --> 00:31:10.530 This week is Matt's wearing a creams sick Lauren shirt, or at least 00:31:10.530 --> 00:31:12.090 based on my camera view today. 00:31:12.205 --> 00:31:13.965 He's a swift, he's definitely, he's a 50. 00:31:15.660 --> 00:31:19.020 But to hear her talk about two things, which was one, 00:31:19.020 --> 00:31:22.890 communicating up and helping, they're not experts in social media. 00:31:22.890 --> 00:31:25.560 How to, how all this is coming together, one. 00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:32.230 Then two, to think about your objectives, your OKRs to think about and tie 00:31:32.230 --> 00:31:37.150 everything to your OKRs, your objectives and key results if you're in a KR shop 00:31:37.420 --> 00:31:39.880 or your KPIs if you're a KPI shop. 00:31:40.150 --> 00:31:44.230 But to tie all that, connect all of that, and then also say 00:31:44.710 --> 00:31:46.270 some of this stuff takes time. 00:31:46.815 --> 00:31:51.705 Too, like it's okay to maybe not change your OKRs or to not change 00:31:51.705 --> 00:31:55.065 your plan from year to year and only add a minimal thing here or there. 00:31:55.335 --> 00:31:57.315 'cause it takes time for a team to execute. 00:31:57.555 --> 00:32:00.585 To hear all that from her, I was like, I was in complete heaven. 00:32:00.780 --> 00:32:01.070 Yeah. 00:32:01.395 --> 00:32:01.695 Yeah. 00:32:01.695 --> 00:32:03.495 She's super, super smart marketer. 00:32:03.495 --> 00:32:04.125 I'm so glad we. 00:32:05.100 --> 00:32:07.170 She's been our, our most recent episode. 00:32:07.170 --> 00:32:08.430 'cause I just got so much out of it. 00:32:08.430 --> 00:32:09.990 I, I did not like a lot of our guests. 00:32:09.990 --> 00:32:13.860 I didn't really know or hadn't met Valerie before, but just was very, very impressed 00:32:13.860 --> 00:32:15.750 and so glad we were able to have her on. 00:32:16.110 --> 00:32:20.010 And I feel like she will make a great leader of a company someday. 00:32:20.010 --> 00:32:23.910 It sounds like she's very happy doing what she's doing, but as Matt once taught me. 00:32:24.165 --> 00:32:27.854 If you have a leader of your organization who understands communications, 00:32:27.854 --> 00:32:29.264 it's a blessing and it's rare. 00:32:29.264 --> 00:32:30.435 So I don't know. 00:32:30.435 --> 00:32:33.524 I feel like if Valerie could keep rising up through the ranks, she 00:32:33.524 --> 00:32:35.354 could lead some really good stuff. 00:32:35.925 --> 00:32:39.135 Well, you know, IB CED a session a few years ago, a world conference called. 00:32:39.524 --> 00:32:44.745 Should the Chief Communications officer be the next CEO in your organization? 00:32:44.835 --> 00:32:45.105 Yes, 00:32:45.195 --> 00:32:48.675 and and they did it at World Conference in front of the, all the thousand 00:32:48.675 --> 00:32:49.845 people there in the general session. 00:32:49.845 --> 00:32:53.205 It was a round table and the discussion was on, I think there were a couple 00:32:53.205 --> 00:32:56.294 of CEOs that actually came from communications and, and we've had 00:32:56.294 --> 00:32:58.304 some of those here in Kansas City. 00:32:58.304 --> 00:33:01.845 I know through my, our program at ku, Wendy Gillis, who used to run 00:33:01.845 --> 00:33:04.575 Kaufman Foundation, I don't know if you guys know Wendy's name. 00:33:04.754 --> 00:33:06.375 She retired, I think a couple years ago. 00:33:06.554 --> 00:33:09.054 She ran Kaufman Foundation, which for those who done. 00:33:09.195 --> 00:33:11.625 Know, so it's one of, it's the world's largest nonprofit 00:33:11.625 --> 00:33:13.245 organization for entrepreneurism. 00:33:13.274 --> 00:33:13.365 Mm-hmm. 00:33:13.605 --> 00:33:14.715 A multi-billion in assets. 00:33:14.985 --> 00:33:20.504 And she came to the CEO role from the role of chief communications officer, and she 00:33:20.504 --> 00:33:25.935 blew the search committee away by the fact that she understood audience and nuance 00:33:25.935 --> 00:33:27.405 and the things that we're all trained in. 00:33:27.705 --> 00:33:31.064 And so off a little bit of a tangent there, but Julie, oh my gosh. 00:33:31.064 --> 00:33:33.975 I, you know, gee, you could absolutely see Valerie in a role 00:33:33.975 --> 00:33:35.159 like that because she's 100%. 00:33:35.475 --> 00:33:38.834 She's got those same kinds of skills and, and it's still rare that we 00:33:38.834 --> 00:33:42.135 would see a, a chief communications officer vaulted into the CEO road. 00:33:42.135 --> 00:33:46.365 Normally they're gonna come from finance or supply chain or out of the MBA shops. 00:33:46.365 --> 00:33:47.625 But it does happen. 00:33:47.685 --> 00:33:50.774 And, and, and when it does, I think it's been really successful. 00:33:51.510 --> 00:33:52.020 Well in 00:33:52.020 --> 00:33:55.649 the leaderships and great communicator and marketing hits are 00:33:55.649 --> 00:33:58.290 just gonna keep on coming folks. 00:33:58.290 --> 00:34:03.300 So we've got a couple great guests that, and from some very different perspectives. 00:34:03.750 --> 00:34:06.870 Both I think that are gonna be interesting from a professional 00:34:06.870 --> 00:34:08.520 and career development perspective. 00:34:08.520 --> 00:34:12.360 So we've got Jalyn Johnson coming on, we were talking about a 00:34:12.779 --> 00:34:16.799 younger, earlier in her career professional that will be a guest. 00:34:16.799 --> 00:34:17.130 So we're gonna. 00:34:17.705 --> 00:34:19.535 Talk about lessons learned. 00:34:19.925 --> 00:34:25.655 She is the director of communications for the local prosecutor's office 00:34:25.655 --> 00:34:29.675 here in Kansas City, so Jackson County Prosecutor's office, and 00:34:29.765 --> 00:34:31.115 again, earlier in the career. 00:34:31.115 --> 00:34:33.755 So there are gonna be a lot of lessons, I think for. 00:34:34.255 --> 00:34:36.955 Newer professionals that are gonna resonate. 00:34:36.955 --> 00:34:40.465 And then I know LinkedIn, and particularly this group, LinkedIn's 00:34:40.465 --> 00:34:45.324 been gonna be a big topic, and so we're bringing an expert in from LinkedIn. 00:34:45.565 --> 00:34:51.235 So if you've noticed the change in the algorithm in the machine, there have been. 00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:55.220 Material changes to the way LinkedIn's been running. 00:34:55.220 --> 00:34:59.420 And so I saw a great presentation earlier in the year with Perna 00:34:59.420 --> 00:35:03.140 Vierge at Digital Summit, and Perna has agreed to come on the show. 00:35:03.140 --> 00:35:07.220 So we're gonna have her, she's a content marketing evangelist. 00:35:07.220 --> 00:35:11.025 Kind of the lines of Joe Pulizzi and she works at LinkedIn and really 00:35:11.025 --> 00:35:14.835 talks about how LinkedIn works and the things that work on LinkedIn. 00:35:14.835 --> 00:35:17.535 So I think folks are really gonna wanna check out that episode. 00:35:17.925 --> 00:35:21.765 And then I know Julie and Matt are working on some other guests as well 00:35:22.035 --> 00:35:23.415 that we're gonna be bringing on. 00:35:23.415 --> 00:35:27.465 But those two I know we'll be able to sink our teeth into, 00:35:27.795 --> 00:35:30.495 metaphorically sink our teeth into. 00:35:30.690 --> 00:35:31.980 It's getting close to Halloween. 00:35:31.985 --> 00:35:34.560 I, I must be craving the Snickers bar or something. 00:35:34.560 --> 00:35:35.370 I don't know, but I'm 00:35:35.370 --> 00:35:35.970 always craving, 00:35:37.620 --> 00:35:40.050 but we're gonna have those guests on here in short order, so I 00:35:40.050 --> 00:35:40.230 know. 00:35:40.230 --> 00:35:41.340 I'm looking forward to having them. 00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:42.510 Absolutely. 00:35:42.510 --> 00:35:42.690 Yeah. 00:35:42.695 --> 00:35:45.330 It's, it's exciting and I just think that the, the 00:35:45.330 --> 00:35:46.890 conversations keep getting better. 00:35:46.890 --> 00:35:50.130 And, and Julie, just a shout out to you, you've brought so much to the show and 00:35:50.130 --> 00:35:54.690 in terms of your new perspectives and introducing us to a couple of, of avenues, 00:35:54.690 --> 00:35:56.310 we haven't walked down in the past. 00:35:56.310 --> 00:35:59.220 And, and so I ju, I love where we're going, so let's keep it up guys. 00:35:59.464 --> 00:35:59.734 Yep. 00:35:59.884 --> 00:36:00.904 Love having you aboard. 00:36:00.904 --> 00:36:01.205 Thanks. 00:36:01.205 --> 00:36:02.134 I'm looking forward to it. 00:36:02.524 --> 00:36:03.185 Yeah, it's fun. 00:36:03.335 --> 00:36:03.845 It's fun. 00:36:04.145 --> 00:36:07.685 Alright folks, that's gonna do it for the three of us this time. 00:36:07.685 --> 00:36:14.435 For Matt and Julie, this is Brent and we will see you next with Jalyn Johnson. 00:36:14.645 --> 00:36:15.365 Take care, everybody. 00:36:15.694 --> 00:36:19.325 If you found value in today's episode, check us out on our 00:36:19.325 --> 00:36:21.754 website cultivated marketer.com. 00:36:22.535 --> 00:36:24.694 You'll also be able to subscribe to us. 00:36:24.845 --> 00:36:28.774 Rate us and leave us a comment on your favorite podcast platform. 00:36:29.205 --> 00:36:33.524 Such as Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Stitcher. 00:36:34.395 --> 00:36:39.375 Remember, a garden of opportunity grows with cultivated marketer.